YR equivalent of 33rd degree

Discussion in 'The York Rite' started by Ripcord22A, Aug 16, 2016.

  1. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I agree.
     
  2. Mark.y

    Mark.y Registered User

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    I have always heard that the approximate equal of the 33 degree I the York Rite is being a member of the Red Cross of Constantine. Being a member is sometimes designated by the "Red Cross" medal worn on the Templar uniform and only allows a membership of 33 at a time.
     
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  3. Matt L

    Matt L Site Benefactor

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    My thoughts exactly. I'm a PHP, PIM and now an Emmiment Commander. We changed our stated meeting nights, Chapter Council on one night, Commandery on another.
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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  4. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Well, no, the Red Cross on the Templar uniform should have nothing to do with the RCC, as that is not the manner approved by RCC. Note, the prerequisite for RCC is HRA, not KT. No, the Imperial Constitution does not limit the number in a conclave to 33, though a particular conclave might do so.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2016
  5. Mark.y

    Mark.y Registered User

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    The Red Cross on the Templar uniform has a pre-requisit of the RCC, that's where it comes from. I am not talking about the passion crosses or the Mateze crosses (when in Grand Commandery) I am talking about the one that would be in a single medal form and sits next to the white Maltese cross from the order of Malta in that order on a uniform on the left chest. The conclaves in our state, at minimum, are limited to 33 active members, there can be honorary members, but only 33 active.
     
  6. Mark.y

    Mark.y Registered User

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    Yes HRA is a component, members are called Knight Companions because of the association with the Templar degrees..
     
  7. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    If you, as REGC, and the Intendant General allow the RCC jewel to be worn on on the left side in your jurisdiction, it's not my place to gainsay. However, I would invite your attention to
    410.010. REGALIA AND JEWELS
    Collar Ribbons for Jewels. Collar ribbons shall be used for all Jewels of the Order, except the Knight Grand Cross. ...

    As to the subsequent post, indicating RCC uses the appellation of knight because of its association with Templary, I would disagree, but certainly would be interested in a citation. HRA isn't just a "component ", it is the prerequisite of RCC. The degrees within RCC would be components. Templary is not a prerequisite and has no association with RCC of which I'm aware, but again, I'm willing to be educated.
     
  8. Mark.y

    Mark.y Registered User

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    And looking through other posts, you cannot petition to become a member of the RCC, you must be nominated by a member, when there is an opening, it is voted on whether to accept the nomination, and then it is sent to the Imperial Council for approval, if accepted, they are then voted on to become a member and if elected for membership are put through the degree followed by the points.
     
  9. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Well, while there must be a clearance before the invitation is sent, the process you outlined is not set by Imperial. See ยง804.115. REGULAR MEMBERSHIP.
     
  10. Mark.y

    Mark.y Registered User

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    Grand Encampment code calls for all medals, starting with the order of Malta which every Knight is entitled to wear, except for Grand Encampment medals to be worn on the left chest. Having visited Utah's Grand Sessions, I know that medals are worn on the left chest in Utah also and we are both members of the Northwest Department where we all meet in Boise Idaho every October and one of the subjects discussed this year was the wearing of medals. Left chest, and the Red Cross worn there is for RCC.
     
  11. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    No. UT is SW Dept. Yes, I've attended your YR Grand Sessions as well and no, we've not authorized the RCC jewel to be worn in Utah Grand Commandery, as it is not currently approved by RCC for that purpose--and will not be for the next six months unless Imperial directs otherwise.

    As a slightly different note, I've wondered about the reason for the increasing number of gongs/ribbons approved for KT uniforms: KYCH, veterans, PCA, and, you indicate, RCC. We are starting to look like South American generals (apologies to my SA brethren).
     
  12. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Ahh, I think I see the confusion. It is the Order of the Red Cross jewel which is worn on the KT uniform , not the Red Cross of Constantine jewel. See http://www.knightstemplar.org/gckt/nj/Uniform.htm

    The Order of the Red Cross is conferred by KT. Red Cross of Constantine is conferred by an RCC Conclave. Different orders, organizations and, indeed, jewels
     
    Last edited: Dec 28, 2016
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  13. Companion Joe

    Companion Joe Premium Member

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    Yes, I agree that there is some confusion here. As noted above, the Red Cross within the Commandery and the Red Cross of Constantine are two completely different entities.

    At least in Tennessee, all Knights Templar have the Order of the Red Cross, and (can) wear the medal on their uniform. It's the first step in the Commandery followed by the Order of Malta and the Order of the Temple.

    RCC is by invitation only, and membership in conclaves is usually limited to a certain number. I have heard that there are no more than about 7,000 Red Cross of Constantine members in the United States. Glenn can probably speak more knowledgeably about that.
     
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  14. KSigMason

    KSigMason Traveling Templar Site Benefactor

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    The Red Cross of Constantine is very prestigious. However, the Red Cross of Constantine and the Illustrious Order of the Red Cross are two different bodies. The former is an invitational group that requires one to be Christian and a Royal Arch Mason. The latter is an order (a degree) conferred within the Commandery of Knights Templar. The jewels of these two groups are both red crosses, but are different in design.

    http://www.travelingtemplar.com/2012/03/order-of-knights-of-red-cross-of.html

    http://www.travelingtemplar.com/2014/08/the-illustrious-order-of-red-cross.html
     
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  15. Mark.y

    Mark.y Registered User

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    My humblest apologies if I have led anyone astray, being late in the night I was not separating the two as they should have been in my mind. The Order of the Red Cross is the degree previous to the Order of Malta in succession, where the RCC is an invitation only group.

    Back to the original subject matter - A group that could be considered as equal to the 33rd degree possibly - HRAKTP ( Holy Royal Arch Knight Templar Priests, they are invitation only, only one group per state (as far as I have knowledge) limited membership (33 in our state with 7 emeritus possible I believe) contains two of the three bodies of the York Rite (Council is not represented in the title at least, and really not in the degree either) . So only a very few are nominated and gain entrance within this group and is York Rite based... Thoughts??.....
     
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  16. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    HRAKTP limits the number of tabernacles by commandery membership in that state; there may be more than one.

    A review of the statutes indicates that only commandery service is needed for membership, not HRA or Council. http://www.hraktp.org/STATUTES.pdf

    Historically, cryptic degrees were performed by this body. http://www.hraktp.org/history.html
     
  17. Companion Joe

    Companion Joe Premium Member

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    This is why it's hard to make a direct comparison between SR 33 and anything YR. With all the YR bodies having, in most cases, separate governing organizations instead of a blanket leadership, what is considered the most prestigious is somewhat left in the eye of the beholder. Personally, it's Red Cross of Constantine. HRAKTP might be if Commandery is the most important thing to someone. Although it tries to be the bull of the woods when it comes to YR, Commandery has no more or less authority over the YR than do the Chapter and Council. Just because one (or two) bodies is/are prerequisites for another doesn't mean the last in the line is more important... despite what many of its adherents think.

    This isn't my comparison, but I like the one I've heard that puts KYCH equal to SR red hat and RCC equal to SR white hat.
    Others argue that KYCH is above RCC. Their opinion has merit, too.
     
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  18. Mark.y

    Mark.y Registered User

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    I would agree that in the statutes, one must be a Past Commander to be considered for membership, but to be a Knight, one must first become a Companion, and without going into detail, the degree, opening and closing all use references to the Blue Lodge, The Royal Arch and the Templar degree's and maybe in my mind only, the name "Holy Royal Arch" Knight Templar Priest would add some degree of preference to the Chapter..
     
  19. Mark.y

    Mark.y Registered User

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    I would absolutely agree that there are some who believe that because the Templar degrees are the last in succession, that they are the highest level of the York Rite, but I would absolutely disagree with these thoughts. Each body is individual unto itself and although successive, have no more importance in my eyes. They are just added light. The Chapter degrees are among some of my favorite degrees in Masonry, with wonderful lessons for all who take the time to learn their meanings. Commandery degree also contain great lessons, but ultimately they are separate and equal in my eyes, although I'm sure there are some who would argue differently.
     
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  20. SimonM

    SimonM Registered User

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    Since they are separate and equal, why do they have to be taken in a specific order? Are there references in later degrees to earlier which makes it more easy to understand if they are taken in that way?
     

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