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Women in masonry

Joaben

Registered User
@babyjo... The fact that sexist-masons explained to you that "Freemasonry deals with male energy" just mean that they are sexists. It is not an evidence ! And in opposition with FACTS ! Women practice masonery exactly the same way we do.
Women were not permitted in army, police, religion, management before ! They are now !
Mixt masonery (C-masonery, you say) is highly practiced in Europe without any problem of such kind.
In your job, you have to work with women, no ?
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
you are obviously an ANTImason I will not engage any longer and I suggest to my fellow brethren here do the same
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
so why does the question only come up with regard to ours?

Because our fore-bearers led the world in freedom and equal treatment so people jump to an incorrect conclusion. Equal treatment to us means women are completely welcome to have their own orders that exclude men.

Because we are universal in terms of race, creed, national origin, religion, that we must also be universal in terms of gender.

It's not difficult to figure why folks ask if we take women.

To me the hard part is why other orders that are single gender don't get singled out as we are. I actually have no idea if other excluding orders are singled out or not. I see the questions aimed at Masonry because I am active in lodges. I can't off the top of my head name orders that are exclusive to women. Plus I don't any of those orders are anywhere near our size so we make a much larger target.
 

babyjo

Premium Member
It is obvious to me that @Joaben is upset and that was not my intention. So despite @jdmadsenCraterlake211 's suggestion, I have posted a reply below.

To answer your question about the workplace, I wouldn't put it as 'have to' work with women. I quite enjoy a diversified workplace. I don't understand how anything I wrote was sexist. I'm sorry if you feel that I was told this by 'sexist Masons.' It was actually a woman who explained to me that Freemasonry is male energy work, not a Mason. My interest in and study of the Occult stretches far beyond the Light of Freemasonry. But outside of that conversation, I have never actually discussed the reason why women are not 'allowed' to be Masons. As I mentioned, a few women have been made Masons. I also stated that Masonry is not specifically intended for all women. I didn't say anything against women joining, as there are some Lodges that DO permit women to join. I don't see the value in having a firm opinion on the issue, nor did I state that I have a firm opinion on the subject. I'm sorry if what I wrote made you upset, as it was not my intention to do so. I have no interest in perpetuating sexism, but a Fraternity is historically a group of men who meet. I have seldom felt the need to question that further. This thread interested me for that exact reason. Thinking that I am among Masons, and therefore free to express myself without ridicule, I was willing to share my perspective. The last thing I hoped for was to cause disharmony in the thread. Being a Mason, I have no problem entertaining a difference of opinion. I can only speak to what I have experienced, seem to know and understand, and what I am told. I have never demanded to join a Sorority. I'm not sure what would happen if I were to do so. The only thing keeping me from doing so is probably the fact that I respect the fact that those women want a place to congregate without men. Just as most Masons want a place to congregate without women. Please accept my sincere apology in expressing what I thought to be a benign opinion.
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
It is obvious to me that @Joaben is upset and that was not my intention. So despite @jdmadsenCraterlake211 's suggestion, I have posted a reply below.

To answer your question about the workplace, I wouldn't put it as 'have to' work with women. I quite enjoy a diversified workplace. I don't understand how anything I wrote was sexist. I'm sorry if you feel that I was told this by 'sexist Masons.' It was actually a woman who explained to me that Freemasonry is male energy work, not a Mason. My interest in and study of the Occult stretches far beyond the Light of Freemasonry. But outside of that conversation, I have never actually discussed the reason why women are not 'allowed' to be Masons. As I mentioned, a few women have been made Masons. I also stated that Masonry is not specifically intended for all women. I didn't say anything against women joining, as there are some Lodges that DO permit women to join. I don't see the value in having a firm opinion on the issue, nor did I state that I have a firm opinion on the subject. I'm sorry if what I wrote made you upset, as it was not my intention to do so. I have no interest in perpetuating sexism, but a Fraternity is historically a group of men who meet. I have seldom felt the need to question that further. This thread interested me for that exact reason. Thinking that I am among Masons, and therefore free to express myself without ridicule, I was willing to share my perspective. The last thing I hoped for was to cause disharmony in the thread. Being a Mason, I have no problem entertaining a difference of opinion. I can only speak to what I have experienced, seem to know and understand, and what I am told. I have never demanded to join a Sorority. I'm not sure what would happen if I were to do so. The only thing keeping me from doing so is probably the fact that I respect the fact that those women want a place to congregate without men. Just as most Masons want a place to congregate without women. Please accept my sincere apology in expressing what I thought to be a benign opinion.

So here is my take on it....In schools and other public actions there are seperate but equal activities. There is baseball for boys and softball for girls, boys track events, girls track events, male Martial arts divions and female martial arts divisons, for activities where there is no alternative boys can participate in predominately female activies( volleyball, cheerleading ect) and girls vice versa (football, wrestling). Same with masonry...thgere are all female and mixed gender lodges. I acknowledge their existence and regularity of work(in most cases) however we are not part of the same family brach....more like inlaws,,,,,IE i wouldnt go to my brothers wifes family reunion same as a comason or female only member cant come to my lodge and vice versa!
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
These days there is an inner game for almost everything: cricket, tennis, music, wealth, work, motorcycles ...

But not Masonry. Masonry has really lost it.
Freemasonry perhaps, but not Masonry; ever.

This who practice the former, think the real secrets are lost forever.

Those who practice the later, have them.
 

Joaben

Registered User
@dfreibur : What you say about freedom for women, was called in South Africa APARTHEID.
It is silly, soory ! Have you any right or concession to leave anyone found their own order ? No ! Anybody can found their order ! You may not recognize them ! That is your sole power !
@jdmadsenCraterlake211 : you can say, you do not like me and do not want to exchange with me ... This a bit capricious. Anti-mason ? Because I disgree with yor sexism ? ?
@babyjo : not upset at all ! I undestand you point ! I thought the same during years ! Tell that to the ones who do not want to exchange anymore(the agression by the mirror) ...sexism means discrimination depending on sex. When you say you do not want to practice masonery together with women you are in this case. It does not change if you say they can practice elsewhere. They do ! They don't wait for your autorisation !(fortunately).
"I have never actually discussed the reason why women are not 'allowed' to be Masons." ...sorry but wrong subject ! Women are free to practice masonery ! The only problem is YOURS ... why you apply a false (but deeply in the minds) criteria to practice masonery together. Racist in South Africa were sure of the well-founded.
There were historical, sociological, economical reasons in 18th century for sexual discrimination as well as slavery.
You have to ask yoursel YOUR reasons to ractice sexism ... in freemasony when the first founders, masons, of America stated Independance Act, becoming Human Rights later.
I have been 15 years mason in a sexist Grand-Lodge ... I know after these years that apartheid appears natural.
About the word "fraternity", we practice masonery with exactly same rituals than UGLE, without taking into account the sex of the mason. And this is called "Universal Fraternity" ! To explain my point try to meditate about what is the link betwenne brethren behind the word "fraternity" Anything to do with sex ? I think NO ! That'ts why I think we need to ban sexism in freemasonery !
 
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coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
This is what was called APARTHEID !
It's called "choice" and "freedom of association" granted and accepted by the laws and people of the land in acknowledgement of a free society.

It's legal, it's moral and it's ethical, unless you are attempting to prove a point that has nothing to do with the reason for the rule, then it becomes anything you care to distort it to be. You can complain and label it anyway your chose to; it does not make what you claim a fact.

BTW - APARTHEID is so much more. You can't mislead educated minds with charged words that echo inhumanity, injustice and social classism.
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Mathew 7:7 seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened to you;

Mathew 13:12 whoever hath not, even that which he hath shall be taken from him.
Just because you don't know something, doesn't make it a secret. It just means that you don't know enough.
 

Joaben

Registered User
It's called "choice" and "freedom of association" granted and accepted by the laws and people of the land in acknowledgement of a free society.
It's legal, it's moral and it's ethical, unless you are attempting to prove a point that has nothing to do with the reason for the rule, then it becomes anything you care to distort it to be. You can complain and label it anyway your chose to; it does not make what you claim a fact.
BTW - APARTHEID is so much more. You can't mislead educated minds with charged words that echo inhumanity, injustice and social classism.
Nobody denies your right. And apartheid was legal in South Africa, as well as slavery in Europe and America, as well as human sacrifices at other times. All that defended by "educated minds" ...
Instead of taking offense, easy way to escape confrontation ... :
Apartheid was "separate devolpment" of black and white people.
Your apartheid does not target skin colour, but sex of people.
In some ways it is worse than apartheid ... Some appears denying the ability of women to be freemasons !!!
Don't forget that some Grand Lodges in Europe have been condemned for sectarism(does not concern yet sexism, but it can come).
I understand you don't like facing the dark reality of sexism in mainstream freemasonery. Sorry to be FREE-mason !
Accept to be FREE-mason et go further in your claim : If you claim "freedom", a lodge must be free of its criteria of acceptance. All masonic rituals mention the same criteria fo "How do I recognize you as a mason ?" You know the answer ! Nothing to do with sex !
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
Nobody denies your right. And apartheid was legal in South Africa, as well as slavery in Europe and America, as well as human sacrifices at other times. All that defended by "educated minds" ...
Instead of taking offense, easy way to escape confrontation ... :
Apartheid was "separate devolpment" of black and white people.
Your apartheid does not target skin colour, but sex of people.
In some ways it is worse than apartheid ... Some appears denying the ability of women to be freemasons !!!
Don't forget that some Grand Lodges in Europe have been condemned for sectarism(does not concern yet sexism, but it can come).
I understand you don't like facing the dark reality of sexism in mainstream freemasonery. Sorry to be FREE-mason !
Accept to be FREE-mason et go further in your claim : If you claim "freedom", a lodge must be free of its criteria of acceptance. All masonic rituals mention the same criteria fo "How do I recognize you as a mason ?" You know the answer ! Nothing to do with sex !
You are clearly operating at a disadvantage and under a delusion.

I am far from offended. I'm mildly amused at your simpleton efforts.

There is no "development" going on within the Society other than cultivating actors who continue the show.

There is no denial of females to become Freemasons; they have two options at their disposal that they can partake of and from what I here, more seriously too. They are banned from the fraternal choice because the members of the fraternal organization have the right to do so.

Your insistence that there exists a dark reality of sexism only reveals your distorted dark view. It is your view; it is not the reality.

Endlessly calling it "apartheid" no less makes it so than calling members of the organization "Masons". Both are labels and neither are based upon any resemblance of reality.

You have no idea what "Free-mason" means and your ignorance shows at levels that are ear popping.
 

Joaben

Registered User
@coachn ... dont speculate about imaginary "delusion" to try to weaken others. please no fox-news here ! I am very happy to work in masonery out of sexual apartheid.
Some on this forum deny the ability of women to be freemason. If it is not your case, I congratulate you for this small progress.
What you describe is clearly APARTHEID, even if the word has a very bad reputation.
Women are not BANNED from fraternal choice ! YOUR ORGANISATION BAN them. In other fraternal organisation they (and we) live a freemasonery free from your sexism.
You have decided YOURSELF that masonery must be sexist. And you have difficulty to assume the reality of your apartheid (read the definition on wikipedia instead of protesting). Yes black people were banned to go in the SAME BUS than white people. White people dont deny black to take the bus ... but not with them ... Exactly like you !
You can off course agress me and deny me my freemasonery ... another point that proves that you ignore even the basics ("How do I recognize you as a mason ?"). May be your pride is enough for you to auto-proclaim you as a mason allowed to revoke masonic tri-centenary rules for recognition of masons ?
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
... dont speculate about imaginary "delusion" to try to weaken others.
To point out an already existing weakness as an existing state does not make the person exhibiting such weakness weaker. That is delusional thinking.
please no fox-news here ! I am very happy to work in masonery out of sexual apartheid.
To find happiness in a delusion is not something to boast about. It is warped. (and it's "Freemasonry" not "masonery"!)
Some on this forum deny the ability of women to be freemason. If it is not your case, I congratulate you for this small progress.
It an interesting point to ponder... being the object of any congratulations from another for not sharing in a delusion.
What you describe is clearly APARTHEID, even if the word has a very bad reputation.
Apartheid is imposed upon a population within geographical boundaries that they cannot escape from. They did not opt-in to the arrangement. They must subjugate themselves to the will of a minority who have empowered themselves through force of law to prevent the target of their laws from living lives that only a few can.

Freemasonry are voluntary opt-in organizations that offer to both genders opportunity to participate in morality plays and other organizational events that are also voluntary and that have no impact upon the laws of the land, who they hang with, what they do to make a living and where and how they live.

You are trying to equate unicorns to real animals. That is delusional.

Women are not BANNED from fraternal choice ! YOUR ORGANISATION BAN them. In other fraternal organisation they (and we) live a freemasonery free from your sexism.
Good! Enjoy your participation and for God's sake, allow us to enjoy ours without dumping your desires and passions as unrealistic expectations that we must follow suit to soothe your unsettled dogmatic soul.
You have decided YOURSELF that masonery must be sexist.
I have decided what I want to participate in. It is not a mixed gender environment and I have no guilt or shame over it. In fact, I am quite pleased that such environments exist for me, for my Brothers and for my Sisters world wide. You can call it sexist; it does not mean that it is or make it so.
And you have difficulty to assume the reality of your apartheid (read the definition on wikipedia instead of protesting).
I try not to accept false labels that are intended to manipulate ignorant minds. This is one such false label that I shan't accept based upon your illogical and biased rantings.
Yes black people were banned to go in the SAME BUS than white people.
You forgot to mention Hitler... your argument is missing this. Don't you realize that without mentioning Hitler your argument is automatically invalid? Get with it, please!
White people dont deny black to take the bus ... but not with them ... Exactly like you !
You are ranting in directions that make no sense whatsoever and claiming things that are the imaginings of a unsound uninformed soul.
You can off course agress me and deny me my freemasonery ...
Only if you are inside my jurisdiction. Outside it, you are free to play with your unicorns all you want.
...another point that proves that you ignore even the basics ("How do I recognize you as a mason ?").
Well for one, a sound mind would help.
May be your pride is enough for you to auto-proclaim you as a mason allowed to revoke masonic tri-centenary rules for recognition of masons ?
LOL! You keep thinking that if you throw enough fertilizer at an insane seed it will bear useable fruit. How's that working for you?
 
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Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
apartheid
1
: racial segregation; specifically: a former policy of segregation and political and economic discrimination against non-European groups in the Republic of South Africa
a rigid former policy of segregating and economically and politically OPPRESSING the nonwhite population.

@coachn are we oppressing women by not allowing them in our boys club?
 
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