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Christianity in Freemasonry

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Ressam

Guest
Not only "social change".
These 2 things changed everything(!):
1. Nuclear Weapons.
2. Artifical Satellites(space debris).
IMHO -- Freemasonry needs Huge-huge Transformation(Reformation).
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
I wonder why in America it's so frowned upon, but in European countries it's not. If im not mistaken, wasnt freemasons involved in the Boston Tea Party, American Revolution, etc. Mainly conflicts that brought about social change ?
Yes Freemasons were involved in almost every facet of the American revolution....but the fraternity was not!
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Ah, but it has not always been that way correct?

Earliest Masons would have been very religiously connected right? At times I suspect it has taken a bit sway to and from, as lodges felt compelled? (as the topic indicates Christianity in FM)

Same with politics. I assume that in America during the revolution, lodges and Masons would have been very politically active. I am assuming there would be a good deal of plotting and planning taking place during what should have been scheduled lodge meetings?

So we all have to understand, that politics and religion are not discussed during open lodge, as we seek to build on what is the SAME about us, and not fight over what is different. I fully believe many Masonic rules, policies, practices and traditions must be observed and even defended by current membership. But I think when the situation warrants it, some rules SEEM to be guidelines and not so strict?

(still learning)

I'm still learning too :)

I think there is an idea Jacobitism(movement to restore Stewart Throne in Scotland and England) was connected with the Craft there and in France looking at England as a political opponent- and later with the Secret Societies Act (English) saw our masonic ancestors distance themselves from politics. Whether perception or reality, i'll let you do your own research and draw your own conclusions. Me, I think Scottish nationalism might have played a role, but as Coach says, there is a lot of romanticism and speculation in that. In the States, you had the Anti-Masonry Political Movement - another pressure which saw our masonic ancestors distance themselves from politics. This is one of the steps we took to ensure Freemasonry was seen as a peaceful, lawful and legitimate organisation and not a group of agitators which in turn did attract respected members, including Protestant Clergy - but also high profile Catholics like Dan O'Connell in the 1700's.

What is interesting to contemplate, is if you think Speculative Freemasonry predates the Protestant Reformation ( but bearing in mind Freemasonry was not a religious institution) was it catholic or heretic in nature ? I dont think will ever know... but I've never seen a "ancient charge" to obey the Pope.... all very interesting.

One thing for sure: people present speculation as fact in this space, but what we would call irregular European Freemasonry has engaged in religious politics and action in ways inconceivable to the regular Freemason. What's also interesting is several early founders of the Craft in South America were Catholic Clergy, something Rome seems to ignore, but I've only read a bit about the origins on Freemasonry in Sth America.

All interesting stuff. Where Axioms often prove false

And its full of "facts" like wonderful Masons at the Alamo - which fail to mention Santa Anna was also a Freemason
 
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Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
IMHO, Freemasons were involved in The Enlightenment.
Scientific-Technical Revolution/Progress. But, IMHO, too early. Firstly, satan must dissappear. Then, Doors to The Universe will be Opened, to Humanity.
Also, "pumping oil" is very primitive way to produce Energy.
It the Basis of The Earth. The Blood. It's not Logical to pump it till the End.
Shortly, IMHO, Freemasonry is not Salvation.
It's just good Gentlemen's Club.

Not only "social change".
These 2 things changed everything(!):
1. Nuclear Weapons.
2. Artifical Satellites(space debris).
IMHO -- Freemasonry needs Huge-huge Transformation(Reformation).
Alright you did it...you pissed me off! PLEASE JUST GO AWAY!

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 
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Bloke

Premium Member
...
I recall a community leader long ago, who would occasionally wake in the morning and rush off to establish an initiative, sometimes contrary to his previous policy. He would give some reasons that I soon would realize were nonsense. But when I watched closely I could see that the initiatives were correct. He did not understand why but when asked did the best he could in justification....

Nice story, but I've actually worked for a guy like that in work too important (to me ) to waste time in that sort of chaos. I still work with him, but have learned to harness his strengths and control his weaknesses
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Brother, while I am by no means defending this man, and I would love to see him gone, I would urge you to subdue your passions. You are the master of your thoughts and words, exercise temperance and patience and spread brotherhood.
And i have been for months now. We have politely told him not to comment on things he know nothing about. None of his posts mske any sense. He doesnt bring any insight to anything. He is here strictly to stir the pot. Be got his wish cause those last 2 posts of his reallt ticked me off amd i lost my patience.

MY BROTHERS i appoligize for loosing my patience!

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
MY BROTHERS i appoligize for loosing my patience!

It happens to the best of us. And please understand, my advice was for your benefit, not his.
Here we have an interested outsider who just might provide some useful observations. I read his posts with interest.

I recall a community leader long ago, who would occasionally wake in the morning and rush off to establish an initiative, sometimes contrary to his previous policy. He would give some reasons that I soon would realize were nonsense. But when I watched closely I could see that the initiatives were correct. He did not understand why but when asked did the best he could in justification.

From that I learned to evaluate propositions independently of the rationale. I apply that in this case too.
I'm all for different opinions, even when I strongly disagree with them, but this has grown to the point of causing disharmony. But, I'm not an admin.
 

goomba

Neo-Antient
Site Benefactor
Recognition signs are those signs - that serve to identify a brother by day as well as by night - as a local ritual tells us.

If the brethren were "involved in almost every facet of the American revolution... but the fraternity was not" then it follows that the brethren were acting independently of the local lodges. This situation seems to me to be explainable only by the brethren not being able to recognize each other.

A group of men, who happen to be Masons, can do activities not as a lodge. Just because Masons are involved doesn't make it Masonic.
 

hanzosbm

Premium Member
A group of men, who happen to be Masons, can do activities not as a lodge. Just because Masons are involved doesn't make it Masonic.
Exactly. They were also all Christians, that doesn't mean that the American Revolution was planned by the church.
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Exactly. They were also all Christians, that doesn't mean that the American Revolution was planned by the church.
Not true. Several of the founding fathers didnt identify with any religion. It was almost as if Masonry was their religion(EVEN THOUGH ITS NOT A RELIGION). I say this as BFranklin and one of the Adams(cant remember which one) and others said on more then on occasion that religion was a downfall of society. Obviously thats not a direct quote but u get the idea

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Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
IMHO -- Freemasonry needs Huge-huge Transformation(Reformation).

Now that ive calmed down lets discuss this Ressam....you are not a Freemason yet you think we need to change how we do things? How can you have an opinion on something that you have never experienced? Thats kinda like telling a pilot how to land his jumbo jet cause you read a book about planes once. Do you understand? Please sir keep your comments to topics that dont contain the workings of and matters of the craft itself.
If you have an opino on whether a lodge should serve alcohol..ok no big deal. But to say that we are in contact with aliens or that we need a huge hige tramsformation.....not cool.

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 
R

Ressam

Guest
Greetings, Mr.Madsen!
Nice that you are in good mood!
I just wondered: on what degree are you now(additional)?
 
R

Ressam

Guest
There is no need to "have an experience" to -- "have an opinion on something".
 

coachn

Coach John S. Nagy
Premium Member
There is no need to "have an experience" to -- "have an opinion on something".
LOL!

The Blank Space Law: If there is a blank space to fill, even the most ignorant and naïve among the verbally enabled are compelled to have and fearlessly share opinions about things of which they have no clue, if for no other reason then to just to fill that space.
 
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