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The Egyptian Schools of Mystery?

manmaxx05

Registered User
Isn't it just a claim without any prove, some masonic founder happen to be one who can read hieroglyphics and copied down what to him seem sacred and knowledgeable. I put that how it end up founding freemasonry or same also illuminati because if you look closely no different only freemasonry is in America and illuminati in Europe.

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JM-MWPHGLGA

Premium Member
According to Masonic tradition the first lodge was set up by Moses and "Moses was learned in all the wisdom of the Egyptians".

If so, Masonry comes from Egypt and since the Egyptian civilization appears fully formed at its commencement, Masonry may be even older.

I have to agree, the term or phrase may be young. But the artwork or craft/practice dates back beyond Greek. It's evidence on the walls of khemet/Egypt that lets researchers know the true identity or origin of freemasonry of today. But to each its own. Your statement is true in my eyes.


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JM-MWPHGLGA

Premium Member
It surprises me (or perhaps it does not) how little attention Masonic historians give to the ritual and its structure.

For example the Master is placed up 3 steps. Why is that?

Hint: Who is the god of three steps?

Why does a ladder appear in Masonry in various guises?

Hint: Which ancient non-Masonic rituals use a ladder?

Agreed. I have always seen more and still do. The learning curve never stops.


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dfreybur

Premium Member
It surprises me (or perhaps it does not) how little attention Masonic historians give to the ritual and its structure.

For example the Master is placed up 3 steps. Why is that?

Hint: Who is the god of three steps?

Since it is known that the ritual is made up, the roots of its details are poorly linked to ancient ways. It's great to speculate but we have no idea if the authors of the ritual were aware of the content of ancient ritual. We will never be able to tell how much is accidental and how much is deliberate.

We deliberately duck on nearly all references to ancient polytheist religions. Partially to not discuss sectarian religion. Partially because the degrees tell a story from a monotheist religion. Partially because a large majority of Masons are monotheists.

As such your fine questions are rhetorical after a bit of pondering on them.
 

JM-MWPHGLGA

Premium Member
Since it is known that the ritual is made up, the roots of its details are poorly linked to ancient ways. It's great to speculate but we have no idea if the authors of the ritual were aware of the content of ancient ritual. We will never be able to tell how much is accidental and how much is deliberate.

We deliberately duck on nearly all references to ancient polytheist religions. Partially to not discuss sectarian religion. Partially because the degrees tell a story from a monotheist religion. Partially because a large majority of Masons are monotheists.

As such your fine questions are rhetorical after a bit of pondering on them.

I beg to differ my Brother. How do we truly know that's it's made up? What sources are there to confirm that? I think the story is a representation of a non-fiction creation. Now I'm only speculating as well because there isn't any hard evidence to let me know the "Truth"


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JM-MWPHGLGA

Premium Member
How about the fact that there used to be only 2 deg based on noah then...poof....now theres 3 based on hiram

How about the fact that there used to be only 2 deg based on noah then...poof....now theres 3 based on hiram

If we are going strictly biblical then that's perfectly fine with me. That mean Noah had to be well learned in Egyptian wisdom before the Egyptians. But when we jump out of biblical relations we end up with the why's and how's of the 3rd. Going back to Egyptian Mysteries being the front runner. Do I think it was called Egyptian mysteries in Egypt? Heck No, it was there way of practice, sacred practice. We just added on that description.


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Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
I beg to differ my Brother. How do we truly know that's it's made up? What sources are there to confirm that? I think the story is a representation of a non-fiction creation. Now I'm only speculating as well because there isn't any hard evidence to let me know the "Truth"


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There is no hard evidence that it is fact, ergo it is fiction. The burden of proof rests on those who claim a basis in Egypt (Kemet).
 

JM-MWPHGLGA

Premium Member
There is no hard evidence that it is fact, ergo it is fiction. The burden of proof rests on those who claim a basis in Egypt (Kemet).

According to my speculations concerning the story then yes your right. But with relation to symbols, and other topics it goes directly towards Egypt.


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Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
The symbols could just as easily lead to Persia. Again, there is no evidence to back either theory.
 

Brother JC

Moderating Staff
Staff Member
Dropping regional names... Zoroastrian beliefs are arguably as old as those of Kemet, and much of the symbolism is the same. Again, no evidence to tie either period/belief system/mystery school to Masonry.
 

JM-MWPHGLGA

Premium Member
Dropping regional names... Zoroastrian beliefs are arguably as old as those of Kemet, and much of the symbolism is the same. Again, no evidence to tie either period/belief system/mystery school to Masonry.

Arguably but not proven. I see the evidence. But to each his own. The order is the oldest in the world, dating back too Greece. At least that's what the practice teach.


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dfreybur

Premium Member
if i made up an organization TODAY and used the symbols and teachings of the Mayans to help people help themselves.....that doesnt mean that i can trace my organization to ancient Maya it just means i used their symbols.....

Right. It would be your best effort reconstruction. Like the Order of Bards and Druids did their best with limited material and made up the rest. Like the authors of our third degree did their best with limited material and made up the rest.

I would love their to be a surviving memory of ancient Egyptian mystery schools, but what we have is a mass of written lore only translated since the decypherment of the Rosetta Stone. Far better than our written lore from Druids, far less than our written lore from the Greeks.

Like with Mithraic religion, what we know of Egyptian ways is the written part and the mystery schools did not write. So we make our best guesses.
 

Bloke

Premium Member
if i made up an organization TODAY and used the symbols and teachings of the Mayans to help people help themselves.....that doesnt mean that i can trace my organization to ancient Maya it just means i used their symbols.....

I think that's key. Wouldn't the fact our system incorporates several other systems of varied time and place really point to the fact ours drew on varied traditions of time and place rather than being a linear continuum ?

It's like a house. It might be Victorian, but if it has a structural element of later Edwardian times, the later indicates the house was altered or not as old as it was designed to make us think it was . Experts can tell from a glance at the chimney and roofline and use it as a good indication of age, windows, doors, floor plan, materials etc give more detail. For me, Freemasonry has such diverse incorporations it's clearly either been completely renovated numerous times or built recently. My bet is built recently, but the point in the thread is all recognise it's symbol rich and some of the origins of those symbols. We all agree ritual changed, whether it's ancient or new, does not matter because both lead to the same thing: if ancient, why did modern rewrite retain the element/symbol or if new, why did they incorporate it? Same question, what's important about it ? And if Freemasonry is a vehicle to teach ? What do these things teach ?
 
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Bloke

Premium Member
Which symbol do you have in mind?
I was actually thinking Aztec sun, (which I think the Mayans had a version of) but also the representations of the Ouroboruos and the symbol (that's name I cannot remember) which reflects the yin/yang simple which reoccurs in our checkered pavement
 
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