One black ball?

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Mac, Jul 19, 2011.

?

Should one black ball be all it takes to reject a candidate?

  1. Yes

    59 vote(s)
    40.7%
  2. No

    86 vote(s)
    59.3%
  1. Mr.Gixxer

    Mr.Gixxer Registered User

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    One down, two to go. I've located men from 3 of the mainstream lodges near me. The first politically told me if petitioned I wouldn't be voted on favourably. But He personally thinks its time. The other lodge meeting nights was missed because of the snow here in Alabama this week. So ill try to visit the others on their next meeting night before they get started. Yes I'm black. But raised to not judge by color. My military career has given me friends of different races.

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  2. jjjjjggggg

    jjjjjggggg Premium Member

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    Good luck gixxer... Sad to hear it, it is about time!!! Hope it happens for you... And one day call you brother!


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  3. JohnnyFlotsam

    JohnnyFlotsam Premium Member

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    I am ashamed to be even remotely associated with the men in those Lodges who would cube a man because of the color of his skin. Yes, I said ashamed.
     
  4. hidonmesahj

    hidonmesahj Registered User

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    Sir, I see your posts all the time. I'm willing to bet you are a good man & a good mason. After almost 2 years of research, I have recently petitioned. In fact, I'm do at the lodge this Tuesday to drop off fees & start the process. However, as a student of law, and therefore of reason, I must respectfully disagree. I think any democratic process hinging on one vote alone ceases to be that form of direct democracy that I think we all seek. Although, I do understand being a guardian of tradition.
     
  5. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    By the nature of the word "unanimous" we are bound by a single vote. And besides, "we've always done it that way." ;)
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2014
  6. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Like the US and all other republics, Masonry is not of the direct subspecies of democracies. We are one of the republic subspecies of democracies. Or maybe more than one of those types.

    The US is a federated republic and a hybrid form of that. A republic whose members are both citizens and states which are themselves federated republics. Lodge as to grand lodge is a bit more like county to state than like state to country, so whether our system counts as a federated type republic I'm not sure. The United Grand Lodge of England has a structure that is both looser and more hierarchical than our system so there isn't a requirement that our system be how grand lodges are run.

    The unanimous ballot has an assortment of traditional and legal reasons. It may help keep us private enough to be not subject to those anti-discrimination rules that required the Girl Scouts cookie selling empire to drop requirements. You will note that the Boy Scouts have been a popcorn selling empire in recent years and sure enough their requirements are beginning to drop.

    It's a conundrum that we discriminate against atheists yet we lead the world in freedom of religion topics. By having limits we do not pass we are more the able to excel within those limits.
     
  7. hidonmesahj

    hidonmesahj Registered User

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    Thank you. Very informative.
     
  8. Mr.Gixxer

    Mr.Gixxer Registered User

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    Update, still in search of a lodge that will admit me. Weird reasoning from some, we've never had a black or we aren't Gate City #2 in Atlanta, they initiated, passed and raised a black man and it caused quite a stir. Interesting articles on the issue, but he is doing quite well looking at their website. Few have said its too soon. Others if I were to be raised I'd be a man with out a country in the south. Some have claimed to belong to a mixed church. Yet won't sit in lodge with some one based on skin color. Questioned as to why not join Prince hall, I've always been color blind. If that's my only option so be it. And yes Its their right not to admit blacks, but is it Masonic? My job allows me to visit and train in other states and countries some don't recognize Prince hall. Why not be welcomed to visit where ever I may travel? The 3rd lodge is split 50/50 but apparently it was rumored of my pursuit to join and quite a few members showed up for the next few meetings. But I've yet to submit a petition so not sure if it was a vote or general census. I was told to exercise patients and I'm doing so. I have really enjoyed this site and the great support of two brothers, whom ill forever be indebted to for their guidance. Prayerfully one day I can become family.

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    Raymond Walters likes this.
  9. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I agree. We have the one ball system in Kentucky and it has, and still does, work just fine.
     
  10. Pete Ramboldt

    Pete Ramboldt Registered User

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    In Wisconsin, 1 black cube rejects. I think this should be the way to go. However, the brother who casts the cube has 48 hours to contact the Master with his reason for his vote. If the Master finds his reason not valid he can override it, and at the next meeting the can state that the candidate has been elected to receive the degrees. If there is a valid reason the vote stands.
     
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  11. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    In Kentucky we do not have this option. The Master can not ask any brother how he voted. Furthermore, no Mason is allowed to tell anyone how he voted.
     
  12. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Asking a brother how or why he balloted goes against the landmarks. Given if there's a law to do that in some jurisdiction, it's still invalid. The landmarks beat any constitution, bylaw or edict.
     
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  13. admarcus1

    admarcus1 Registered User

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    Can you point me to the landmark? I've seen them enumerated differently in different places, so I'm curious about it. I'm also curious about how precise and detailed the language is. I'm my jurisdiction, you cannot ask, but I don't know the source.
     
  14. Zack

    Zack Registered User

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    Which landmark and which jurisdiction(s).
     
  15. masson

    masson Registered User

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    We would absolutely be glad to have you in our lodge.. Jerusalem 31 Bowmanville Ontario Canada. ;-)
     
  16. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    So then it's not a secret ballot. In fact, if the Master can decide whether it's valid or not, it's not even really a ballot, since it must be approved by someone else.

    What if you know something about the petitioner that you cannot reveal without bringing considerable embarrassment to a friend or family member? What if that reason is so strong that you will have to leave your lodge rather than sit in lodge with this man?
     
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  17. Pete Ramboldt

    Pete Ramboldt Registered User

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    I forgot to say that if a black cube is in the ballot, the ballot is destroyed and another ballot is taken immediately. If the second ballot has a black cube, then the 48 hour rule starts. The only time you need to reveal your vote to the Master is if you cast a black cube. You should not feel that you cannot reveal your reasons because it is held in confidence between you and the Master. No one else will ever know who or why the cube was cast. This is just done so that someone can’t blackball a candidate for personal or unwarranted purposes. Your vote remains secret.
     
  18. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    Ouch, it sounds like they really don't want anyone getting black balled.

    You should never have to reveal your reasons for casting a black cube IMO. It's one of your rights as a MM to vote how you see fit without having the justify yourself to someone else.
     
  19. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    Secrecy of the ballot is the landmark I referred to. In the case described it does not remain secret because it is revealed. There are levels of secrecy.

    In at least one of my jurisdictions if you have an objection that you are willing to reveal you go to the master before the meeting where the ballot is scheduled. That stops the ballot without the conflict because it's optional. The situation described here it's not optional.
     
    Last edited: Sep 30, 2014
    Warrior1256 likes this.
  20. Zack

    Zack Registered User

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