One black ball?

Discussion in 'General Freemasonry Discussion' started by Mac, Jul 19, 2011.

?

Should one black ball be all it takes to reject a candidate?

  1. Yes

    59 vote(s)
    40.7%
  2. No

    86 vote(s)
    59.3%
  1. Levelhead

    Levelhead Premium Member

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    Im all for 1 black ball/cube
     
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  2. bezobrazan

    bezobrazan Registered User

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    That's how it is at our Lodge. What's done is done.
     
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  3. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    In Minnesota, it is considered un-Masonic conduct to reveal how you voted. The Master will also call for a re-vote if there is only one black ball, in order to make certain that it wasn't dropped by accident. A second ballot containing a black ball, or multiple black balls on a first ballot, and the vote is over and CANNOT be discussed any further.
     
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  4. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Sounds like a perfect system.
     
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  5. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I rather like a detail variation used in Illinois - When there is a cube in the first ballot the Master must declare a second ballot to be sure. The difference is he gets to chose between doing it immediately in the same meeting or waiting until the next Stated meeting and doing it then. It can give extra time for level heads to prevail.
     
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  6. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    This sounds good also. I have no problem with a second ballot to make sure that the black cube was not accidentally used or a second ballot at the next meeting for the person that voted no to reconsider. But I do not agree with a Master of a lodge requiring someone to justify their ballot so that then the Master can decide whether he will let the vote count or not.
     
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  7. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    After reading up on this thread some more I'm genuinely curious how many accidental 'no's are really cast each year. One is black and square, the other is a white ball and we're reminded which is which before we cast our votes, each time. We could argue that it's in favor of the elderly brothers but it's been my experience that they take their votes pretty seriously.

    There seem to be a lot of precautions against it in various jurisdictions, I won't be surprised when they make it like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.
     
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  8. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    We have a couple of ballot boxes in our lodge (over the years we've gotten the "stuff" from Lodges that we absorbed when they went defunct.) One has white balls and black cubes, but the other has white and black balls. They feel exactly the same.
     
  9. dfreybur

    dfreybur Premium Member

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    I tend to see the wording as a euphemism for hot heads prevailing or gaming the system.

    In California we ballot in parallel if there are multiple petitioners. If there's a cube we cycle through them individually. I remember a cube being dropped on a parallel ballot. Then we cycled through the 3 petitioners one at a time and they all passed the gauntlet. It took longer than most of our Stated meetings. I figured a member objected to parallel balloting, essentially gaming the system.
     
  10. MaineMason

    MaineMason Registered User

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    A black cube cast for frivolous or personal animus unrelated to the objective character of a candidate is considered misconduct in the Grand Lodge of Maine.
     
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  11. Mr.Gixxer

    Mr.Gixxer Registered User

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    To the gentleman that left me the message. I'm not trying to MAKE the main stream lodges near me do anything but give me a chance based on all the criteria and not my race. Yes they are well within their rights to both refuse as well as simply black ball me. At which time I must choose to either try again in a year or find and petition a Prince Hall lodge as becoming a mason is still in me.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using My Freemasonry HD mobile app
     
  12. Mr.Gixxer

    Mr.Gixxer Registered User

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    Wasn't able to reply via message, may be my phone.

    Sent from my SGH-T999 using My Freemasonry HD mobile app
     
  13. Rufus

    Rufus Registered User

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    Greetings dear brothers!
    Interesting topic.

    For me is always hard to take such a decision, which ball throw, black or white, always have to make a choice.

    What for you is becoming a major criterion in the voting?
     
  14. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I am a new MM and have not cast a ballot yet. But when I do if I do not know anything about the candidate then I will have to rely on the information supplied by the investigation committee. If I know the candidate I would consider my opinion of his character and whether or not he may disrupt the harmony of the lodge.
     
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  15. MarkR

    MarkR Premium Member

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    I don't like the three-cube rule, because if you had two brothers drop cubes for valid reasons but the petitioner approved anyway, you could lose two brothers from the lodge to gain one new one.
     
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  16. JJones

    JJones Moderator Staff Member

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    I agree. Unfortunately, overall growth is more visible than local activity at an administrative level. While a few members might go inactive or transfer membership elsewhere over something like that, we still show growth and that's where the focus is. Why bigger is better I don't know.
     
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  17. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Agreed!
     
  18. Brother JC

    Brother JC Vigilant Staff Member

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    Our District Inspector made a comment at the Officers Association meeting recently that bears consideration; "The Master of the Lodge should never be surprised by a black ball." Any objection to a Candidate should make it to the East long before the ballot takes place.
     
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  19. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I can agree with this most of the time. However, if a brother knows something about the candidate that is very private or embarrassing I can see why he would not go to the WM before balloting.
     
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  20. admarcus1

    admarcus1 Registered User

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    I agree that bigger is not necessarily better, but I doubt the 3 ball vs 1 ball is an attempt to grow the fraternity. If the investigation committee is doing even half- assed job, even one black ball should be so rare as to have little if any impact on overall numbers.

    My jurisdiction has one ball, and it seems to work fine. However, I can see where a jurisdiction may be trying to prevent a lone racist in the lodge from vetoing any African American petitioners, or an antisemite keeping out any Jews. Whether or not that is a good solution, I can't say, but it seems a more likely explanation. As a method of increasing numbers, it is extremely inefficient.
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2014
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