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prince hall oklahoma lodges in the middle east?

MRichard

Mark A. Ri'chard
Premium Member
Please name PHA GL's that allow plural membership. And what PHA Grand lodges does not recognize each other ?

MWPHGLMN and I have also heard Delaware, Rhode Island, and Ohio. I am pretty sure about MN. A Prince Hall mason told me about the others so I can only take his word.

There are six PHA grand lodges that don't recognize the PHA grand lodge in Louisiana. I believe I showed you documentation in a private message on here.
 

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
MWPHGLMN and I have also heard Delaware, Rhode Island, and Ohio. I am pretty sure about MN. A Prince Hall mason told me about the others so I can only take his word.

There are six PHA grand lodges that don't recognize the PHA grand lodge in Louisiana. I believe I showed you documentation in a private message on here.
Than you. I believe you did
 

The Traveling Man

Registered User
MWPHGLMN and I have also heard Delaware, Rhode Island, and Ohio. I am pretty sure about MN. A Prince Hall mason told me about the others so I can only take his word.

There are six PHA grand lodges that don't recognize the PHA grand lodge in Louisiana. I believe I showed you documentation in a private message on here.

I have never heard of this. Is there an official statement from a Grand Lodge or a site I can go to to read more on this?
 

The Traveling Man

Registered User
Question : Can a GL be clandestine but regular ?

I don't believe a GL can be Clandestine and Regular, but one can be Regular but Unrecognized, Irregular but Legitimate, or Irregular in Initiation but Regular in practice...

Then again that also depends on someones interpretation of Clandestine and Regular (as well as irregular, recognition, etc.)
 

dfreybur

Premium Member
Question : Can a GL be clandestine but regular ?

Maybe in theory. Clandestine lodges are generally forces for good in their communities. The majority of members do not know of their clandestine status or they would have joined a regular lodge in the first place. Since clandestine jurisdictions jurisdictions tend to use published ritual and reference well known books about Masonry they can observe those landmarks not about lineage.

The treatment for clandestine status is about lineage not about landmarks. Many clandestinely raised brothers can be healed to regular Brothers. We have a number of Brothers on this board who are shining examples of this process. An entire lodge can apply for a charter with a regular jurisdiction and be healed. I read rumors that this has happened but such an event would be understandably under heralded. A clandestine jurisdiction could request consolidation into a regular jurisdiction to heal all of their lodges and members.
 

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
That's where I was going with it. Clandestine meaning no lineage, but regular because they follow the same rituals and ancient landmarks.

Sent from my 831C using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
A regular GL is on that follows the landmarks. You cannot be a reg GL if you admit women, athiests ect ect. there are plenty of bogus GLs that are regular but are not the true GL in their jurisdiction. Plain and simple if it is not the GLoSTATE(AF&AM, F&AM, FAAMofDC, AFMofSC) or the MWPHGLofState with the Stringer and Union exception(F&AM, Or AF&AM of Libera) If a GL claims to be PHA and are AF&AM they are automatically clandestine. Now they may be regular but are clandestine.

general Rule of thumb:

Clandestine: No valid lineage

Regular: Follows landmarks

Recognized: the GL of a jurisdiction that other regular and recognized GLs recognized as the valid jurisdiction in that area.
Inorder to be Regular and recognized a GL must be able to trace its Lineage to some GL that can track its lineage to the UGLE or the lodges that formed it. and be regular in its workings.

Now each jurisdiction has its definition of those words so call your Sec or GrSec and ask him.
 

Glen Cook

G A Cook
Site Benefactor
A regular GL is on that follows the landmarks. You cannot be a reg GL if you admit women, athiests ect ect. there are plenty of bogus GLs that are regular but are not the true GL in their jurisdiction. Plain and simple if it is not the GLoSTATE(AF&AM, F&AM, FAAMofDC, AFMofSC) or the MWPHGLofState with the Stringer and Union exception(F&AM, Or AF&AM of Libera) If a GL claims to be PHA and are AF&AM they are automatically clandestine. Now they may be regular but are clandestine.

general Rule of thumb:

Clandestine: No valid lineage

Regular: Follows landmarks

Recognized: the GL of a jurisdiction that other regular and recognized GLs recognized as the valid jurisdiction in that area.
Inorder to be Regular and recognized a GL must be able to trace its Lineage to some GL that can track its lineage to the UGLE or the lodges that formed it. and be regular in its workings.

Now each jurisdiction has its definition of those words so call your Sec or GrSec and ask him.
These definitions are not necessarily accepted. For some, a GL which is irregular is by definition clandestine. For instance, if you admit women, you are considered clandestine by these GLs.

Really, there is no need to be hung up on these definitions. The issue is whether they meet the criteria for recognition and leave it at that.

It would be better to refer to the Standards for Recognition used by CGMNA and the Principles of Recognition used by UGLE. The citations have previously been provided.

A GL could also trace back to Scotland or Ireland.

As noted, PHA Liberia is AF&AM.
 
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Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
These definitions are not necessarily accepted. For some, a GL which is irregular is by definition clandestine. For instance, if you admit women, you are considered clandestine.

Really, there is no need to be hung up on these definitions. The issue is whether the meet the criteria for recognition and leave it at that.

It would be better to refer to the Standards for Recognition used by CGMNA and the Principles of Recognition used by UGLE. The citations have previously been provided.

A GL could also trace back to Scotland or Ireland.

As noted, PHA Liberia is AF&AM.

Much better explaination my Brother!!
 

rjxhanjj

Registered User
Hi there, if this is true...I need to continue my petition and later on earn a degree to be a full pledged MM. I am from the Philippines when I knock in the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in the Philippines way back 2014, however, opportunity knocks for me in Abu Dhabi (+971 58 994 6711; kindly call if you are in Abu Dhabi or in Dubai right now) since I am a family man. Once you have read this, kindly inform me ASAP!. Thank you brothers...- John Raey Resumadero
 

rjxhanjj

Registered User
I have been traveling all over the middle east for quite some time now , and i have noticed that a majority of lodges from
dubai , saudi, iraq , qatar , afghanistan all operate under the jurisdiction of the MW prince hall lodge of oklahoma, Im just curious on how this came to be.

When did these middle east countries become part of oklahoma jurisdiction?

I know they call all their lodges military lodges, and a majority of them operate a lodge inside a us military base
which is technically still us soil, which supposedly legitimizes their charter

but what about the land of shinar lodge in dubai? is it inside a us base? if not does this still make their charter
valid if they are operating a lodge on foreign soil?

just looking for further information on these lodges bretheren
====

Hi there, if this is true...I need to continue my petition and later on earn a degree to be a full pledged MM. I am from the Philippines when I knock in the Grand Lodge of Free and Accepted Masons in the Philippines way back 2014, however, opportunity knocks for me in Abu Dhabi (+971 58 994 6711; kindly call if you are in Abu Dhabi or in Dubai right now) since I am a family man. Once you have read this, kindly inform me ASAP!. Thank you brothers...- John Raey Resumadero
 
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