No Women in the Frat but Could we Share our Rituals

[MikeMay]

Would be weird referring to a woman as "brother" though...

Wouldn't be so hard if you saw some of the women Marines I served with...not knockin 'em...just sayin...

 

[jwhoff]

"No Woman No Cry" could have and may well should have been Bob Marley's last words. I knew there was something about the man that I liked that first night down in Rice Village. Not wanting to "Stir it UP" or anything ... just sayin'.

"Exodus."

 

[Brent Heilman]

I know I haven't been around the Fraternity as long as all of you guys, but I do have experience in the taking something that was once all male and integrating it. When I was in the Navy the first ship I served on was all male. There were no women whatsoever onboard. Then one day we get from a deployment and we are told that we would be retrofitting the ship so we could have females. Once all of this was complete the females moved on and everything just fell a part. No longer could we just talk about whatever came to mind, we had to watch everything that was said. The practical jokes that were once common and made being there fun disappeared. We had to be more politically correct we because everything that was okay for a group of guys to share or do wasn't okay because a female might be around the corner and get offended. It really took life out of our ship and the morale plummeted. People looked for all kinds of reasons to get away. From my standpoint once you change it it will never be the same and it could possibly spell the end. If it happened a few years down the road those of us that are left will be like those of us on the ship, we will be reminiscing of "the good ol' days" and the "way it used to be". JMHO

 

[JohnnyFlotsam]

One shouldn't have to point the many differences between the U.S. Navy and a private fraternity, but they are not insignificant. Enough so that the argument that "We like things the way they are..." may be rationally put forth in one case and not the other.

 

[Brent Heilman]

I was not trying to say that they are anything alike. I was just pointing out that when you add in a variable that previously did not exist things change in ways that you cannot control and didn't expect. I just used what I went through in the Navy as an example or an allusion if you will.

 

[jwhoff]

My wife was like....:47: when she found out I could wash dishes...

Your wife will never find out I can wash dishes ... she might tell my wife. Then you and I would spend the evening washing dishes while our wives would spend the evening :lol::lol:

 

[Beathard]

Don't let my wife in when I am mopping or cleaning the lodges bathroom either! Her ignorance is my bliss!

 

[Brent Heilman]

Unfortunately my wife knows all that already. She knows I used to work in a restaurant. Also when I was in the Navy and on duty she would call and I would have cut the call short for the nightly clean-up. I also do most of the ironing for my family thanks to my military experience.

 

[jwhoff]

Unfortunately my wife knows all that already. She knows I used to work in a restaurant. Also when I was in the Navy and on duty she would call and I would have cut the call short for the nightly clean-up. I also do most of the ironing for my family thanks to my military experience.

Unfortunately, those military careers are sometimes hard to shake.

 

[Brent Heilman]

Indeed they are. I count it as both a blessing and a curse!

 

[Ashton Lawson]

For those touting following the Bible on this subject, here's something for you to ponder. Christian marriage, from a biblical perspective, is pretty clear on the subject of how a man and woman should interact.

4 “Haven’t you read,” he replied, “that at the beginning the Creator ‘made them male and female,' 5 and said, ‘For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh'? 6 So they are no longer two, but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let no one separate.”
Matthew 19:4-6

So if a married man and woman are one in flesh, it is logical to presume they are also one in mind and spirit.

How much room does that leave for secrets between each of you? It seems to me, that there is no violation of any obligation to reveal your secrets to someone who in God's eyes is one flesh with you.

If you have a problem with that, take it up with God.

 

[HKTidwell]

I'll bite on this, if we are truely one in flesh(Mind and Spirit) then I guess she should have a recollection of what went on and if she has forgotten then who am I to cause her to remember.

I'm not married and if I do ever get married then she will have to make a determination before we are wed whether she can handle it. This will be one of those things that will be discussed up front.

 

[JJones]

Why are some people so insistent they should be able to bring their wives along? :huh:

Women have the EOS, which I'm sure has been mentioned already, I say we leave it at that. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

If you have a problem with that, take it up with God.

That's a bit out of context wouldn't you say? I don't claim to speak for the GAOTU but I have to believe he/she/it would have a much greater problem someone taking my text out of context than anyone keeping secrets.

I'm not trying to be rude but reaching that conclusion from what you quoted strikes me as a huge stretch.

 

[Huw]

Hi David.

There is already a grand lodge of Women masons http://www.owf.org.uk/

Yes, but that's over here in England. In fact there are two all-women GLs here: the other one is http://www.hfaf.org/ .

Just to be clear, these two organisations aren't like OES (which we don't have in England). They're working exactly the same 3 degrees that we do, in their own Lodges, with their own GL, etc. And incidentally, they call one another "Brother", not "Sister".

Of course UGLE doesn't extend official recognition and there's no intervisiting, etc. Indeed, the lady Masons don't want that any more than we do, we like being a boys club and they like being a girls club.

However, the unofficial relationships are good, including at the GL level. On matters of common concern, UGLE and the OWF and HFAF do sometimes act together. At a personal level, some of the lady Masons are the wives of our Brethren, although of course many others have joined independently of any connection to us.

We also have organisations of mixed-sex co-masonry over here, as you also do in the US. In that case, however, as you might expect, we don't work with them.

Since women-only masonry is doing quite well here, I've often wondered why it hasn't taken off more in the US. I can only assume that the OES absorbs the demand over there.

T & F,

Huw

 

[Traveling Man]

Since women-only masonry is doing quite well here, I've often wondered why it hasn't taken off more in the US. I can only assume that the OES absorbs the demand over there.

Welcome back Bro. Huw;

Could it be because they do not realise that OES is the adopted rite and not the same? Or maybe they think they need "permission"... (ROFL)

 

[JTM]

Gents, the frames are broken in this thread (threads made during the old days of VB don't show up correctly in all browsers). Make a new poll/thread if you'd like to continue this discussion.