racism question

Discussion in 'Prince Hall Freemasonry' started by freemasonpha, Oct 21, 2017.

  1. AndreAshlar

    AndreAshlar Registered User

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  2. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    I’d love it if we did have personal access to the Prince Hall history here in Australia though..
    Looking at the bottom of the page with similar threads it appears racism is a persistent issue for many lodges in the US, I personally think if this is witnessed it should be dealt with seriously, not only is it morally reprehensible but it is also illegal.
    There is no place in my understanding of freemasonry for people than that.
     
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  3. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    Racism is illegal is Australia? While I find racism stupid I don't believe it should be illegal. As Americans we have the bill of rights and the 1st amendment protects all speech against actions from the government. I can say what ever I want and the government can't do anything. Now that doesn't stop someone from suing me if I slander them . But Someone could stand on a street corner and yell " I hate black people! All black people are Ns ". And nothing could be done by the government. And as an American while I disagree with the sentiment I would defend their right to say it
     
  4. AndreAshlar

    AndreAshlar Registered User

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  5. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    I was referring to masonically illegal but I do also believe it is illegal in aus but I’m not versed on Aussie discrimination law.
     
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  6. Bloke

    Bloke Premium Member

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    When Australian Freemasons find out about Prince Hall for the first time, they generally just find it weird and a foreign concept in our experience of Freemasonry, but you have to understand it is a product of time and place - and long may Prince Hall proposer and the prejudice which led to it die.

    Not sure racism is illegal in Australia, but we do have strong racial vilification and anti-discrimination laws.

    We admit "others" in Australian Freemasonry. I find it hard to find Australian Aboriginals in the Craft of the 1800;s - but the search is hard by many of them using anglicized names - Sir Douglas Nicholls KCVO, OBE (1906-1988) is certainly the highest profile Australian Indigenous person I am aware of who became a Freemason. What is interesting is how we admitted Chinese into the Craft in the 1800's in the time of the White Australia Policy and anti-Chinese laws. I will do some more work on these some day, but there is a short list here of some well know Chinese Freemasons in Australia http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devotionnews/famous-australian-freemasons/large-list-of-notable-and-famous-australian-freemasons#_Toc470959844 but the url gets changed when the page is updated, it should always be here though http://www.lodgedevotion.net/devoti...t-of-notable-and-famous-australian-freemasons
     
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  7. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    Absolutely true!
     
  8. Warrior1256

    Warrior1256 Site Benefactor

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    I absolutely agree. As disreputable and abhorrent as some speech can be allowing the government to ban any type of speech would be a slippery slope indeed! However, as Brother Ripcord says, we can confront hateful, divisive speech with its opposite.
     
  9. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    As far as racism goes here in sure they would find something to charge you with, remember that while anti-social behaviour malarkey?
     
  10. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    This is how I feel about it. I think it is somewhere between segregation and 'feeling comfortable'. It's a hold over from a bad time in the U.S. I've said it before and I'll say it again, it's needless at this point and creates a division among Brethren that should not be there anymore. It should be 'weird and forgein' to us in the 21st centurty, even in the U.S. I'm not saying do away with PHA but maybe make it an appendant body of sorts or include it in some form or fashion in all BLs. Brothers sitting in one lodge or another based PRIMARILY on their skin color is a needless practice that is a black-eye on the fraternity that exists still today.
     
  11. AndreAshlar

    AndreAshlar Registered User

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    You can't throw away the centuries old tradition that had been established as a result of the hate of past times. Two organizations with a common cause doesn't foster division. Antiquated mindsets do.

    Sent from my SM-G930T using My Freemasonry mobile app
     
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  12. David612

    David612 Registered User

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    It would be a shame to loose that history, I’d love to visit a PHA lodge and will do befor I die.
     
  13. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    I wouldn't throw it away either. I would keep it but unite us under one GL per state. I would keep the recognition of Bro Hall in all lodges. I would say too, create an appendant body that exalts him as SRIA/SRICF does Rosenkreutz.
     
  14. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    ??
     
  15. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    Maybe exalt is a strong word but I just don't want anyone to think I would want the tradition of PHA to go away but I'd like to see all of us under one umbrella. One way of doing that would be having a concordant/appendant body that centers around Bro. Hall. Another would be making sure his pic is in Blue Lodges or on the charters, something. It's a touchy subject and I understand that.

    We are quick to say my comments are ridiculous, maybe wrong or in some way disrespectful or even racist but its not. However if you asked Brothers from other countries "Do you think it's a good idea to have one form of Masonry PRIMARILY for white men and one PRIMARILY for black men?" The answer would be an overwhelming 'no' I'm sure. It goes against our 'accepting' side and it'd be a nearly impossible feat to achieve but it's my opinion. There is something wrong when you look at pictures of 'brothers' and every guy in the photo is white or every guy in a pic is black. There is something fundamentally wrong with that but we won't ever address it so, it is what it is.
     
  16. Ripcord22A

    Ripcord22A Site Benefactor

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    I don't like the appendant body idea....I feel like that would disrespect PHA masons
     
  17. AndreAshlar

    AndreAshlar Registered User

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  18. Glen Cook

    Glen Cook G A Cook Site Benefactor

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    Would that not make African Americans again in the minority in one of the few places they are not: Prince Hall Masonry?

    Any number of countries have multiple grand lodges. In Utah, we have a great relationship with PHA Col. PHA uses Utah GL lodge rooms. We’ve done a joint Shrine installation. The PHA AASR deputy will be the speaker at our AASR Reunion banquet this month. It can work.
     
  19. CLewey44

    CLewey44 Registered User

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    And again this is looking at race and things like that. It's just something that has been held over too long in my opinion. How about we all just become Prince Hall then? That'd be fine by me if we could get rid of this sort of passive-aggressive segregation we have going. We can talk about this and that all day but at the end of the day it is a division in this fraternity and I'll never think differently I'm sorry. And it's a negative thing to me. I'm having a progressive thought process on this while everyone else seems to be comfortable with division. That doesn't make a lot of sense to me. Is it bad that I want to see more black men and diversity in my Lodge?
     
  20. AndreAshlar

    AndreAshlar Registered User

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    Freemasonry is a microcosm of the communities in which the lodges are housed. It makes sense that they reflect the demographic of those communities. That's not a bad thing. Again, it's more about the mentalities of men. Institutionalized racism. In theory, recognition = respect. In masonry, that respect among men should usurp the grip of the racism that is at the core of the history of state GL's... The same racism that created the environment for the birth of African Lodge #459. As bigoted mindsets become less common throughout the craft, we'll progress towards a true brotherhood of men on the level under the fatherhood of God. Consider that It's never been the policy of PHA masonry to exclude men based on race. No state GL can say the same. How would that reality, in your view, play into a one state GL system?

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