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Secrecy

mrpierce17

KOP Council director / Lodge instructor
Premium Member
Telecommunication had changed everything!
The Guys, who have access to Computers, which are connected to Artifical Satellites -- Know Everything!
CIA, KGB, U.S. National Reconnaissance Office, whatever... What "secrets"!?

I could tell you but then I would have to kill my self
 

Bloke

Premium Member
Be all that as it may or may not be, I know that talking about Freemasonry on the web has expanded my understanding of it... and that I did not take an obligation to stay ignorant, indeed at my initiation, while I was taught to be cautious - I was also instructed to make a daily advancement in masonic knowledge. I've used "tyled" micro forums to do that in and their value was immense. . and their content was not really about "secrets" but speculating on the script and symbols used in the craft - esp in other jurisdictions.
 
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Ressam

Guest
It's really interesting, Honorable Gentlemen!
You're meeting once a week, or month, whenever, in The Lodge. Talkin', makin' Rituals, etc. Signs/tokens can be found in the internet.
What "secrets"!?
 

Winter

Premium Member
Exactly! We are keeping... a...the...Tradition. Simple enough.
Just saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. If you truly believe there is no secret worth keeping in Freemasonry besides tradition, I would posit that you haven't found it yet. Having been a member of thr SCA for a long time, I find your analogy insulting. I am sure you didn't intend it that way but we are more than a collection of people just reenacting history with no purpose.

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.
 

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
It is good to know that you know. Will you tell us what you know, so that we will know what you know?

I have found that the only, "secret" is that members do not know why we have/had, "secrets". We carry on with, "tradition", often oblivious to relevancy.

The, "secrets" are not real but the, "tradition" of keeping a, "secret" is real.

We are reenactors, not unlike the SCA but usually older, gray to whiter or balder. Often plumper too.

So mote it be!
If you believe this, then why are you a freemason ?
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Just saying something over and over again doesn't make it true. If you truly believe there is no secret worth keeping in Freemasonry besides tradition, I would posit that you haven't found it yet. Having been a member of thr SCA for a long time, I find your analogy insulting. I am sure you didn't intend it that way but we are more than a collection of people just reenacting history with no purpose.

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.

Could you elaborate what the purpose of the SCA is? as someone that had no idea what it was till a couple weeks i just saw it as a massive LARPing group and my vision of LARPers isnt that great. I mean absolutly no disrespect brother and would truly like to know how the SCA differs from a group of people who still liveing in their parents basement and do things like this...

Or from a group who are historical reenactors such as civil war or anytime period strictly for keeping history alive.

Again i cant stress enough that i mean no disrespect in my inquiry i am just an ignorant when it comes to this subject

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 

Dontrell Stroman

Premium Member
Its not a matter of what we keep secret its the fact that on my honor as a Man, mason, father, son, soldier ect ect that i promised not to reveal those things i was told were to be kept to myself

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
That's right. Let's put the topic of Freemasonry to the side for a second. If someone who was not a freemason told me something they wanted to be kept "secret" (between us), I would not tell. Yes, others may know what that person told me, but I told that person I would not tell, so therefore it will go to the grave with me. Same applies to Freemasonry. A man can go on the internet and learn what he believes to be the "secrets" of Freemasonry, but that doesn't mean I will validate what he learned, as this would be a violation to my obligation.
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
That's right. Let's put the topic of Freemasonry to the side for a second. If someone who was not a freemason told me something they wanted to be kept "secret" (between us), I would not tell. Yes, others may know what that person told me, but I told that person I would not tell, so therefore it will go to the grave with me. Same applies to Freemasonry. A man can go on the internet and learn what he believes to be the "secrets" of Freemasonry, but that doesn't mean I will validate what he learned, as this would be a violation to my obligation.
not only that but what was found on the internet may and usually isn't the same from one jurisdiction to the next. Also the words, tokens and signs aren't all that is secret within a lodge.
 

Winter

Premium Member
not only that but what was found on the internet may and usually isn't the same from one jurisdiction to the next. Also the words, tokens and signs aren't all that is secret within a lodge.
You can read all about the military on the Internet. But until you go through BMT and serve on Active Duty, you'll never know. Freemasonry is the same way.

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.
 

Warrior1256

Site Benefactor
Everything said and done by and in the craft, is available for public consumption. It's on bookshelves and the internet. Why be paranoid about it. Stop making more of Freemasonry than there is. Perhaps some wish to make more of it than there is, in order to feel different, special, etc.. We are what we are. We are who we are as individuals. STUFF the critics!
I took and obligation that I would not reveal Masonic secrets. I did not take an obligation to care if someone else did on the internet, books or otherwise although a Brother may have a lot of explaining to do about violating HIS obligations. Therefore, I will not discuss on an open forum things that are supposed to only be spoken about in Lodge or with a Brother mouth to ear.
 

Winter

Premium Member
It is OK brother. You can come right out and say you are talking about me. I don't mind and my skin is thick enough to take it. But your superficial view of the Craft is why you most likely have no respect for thr Secrets.

Transmitted via my R5 astromech.
 

Ripcord22A

Site Benefactor
Well nobody has come forth the educate me in the ways of the Craft


To answer your question as an aside: I am a Freemason, to impart ,"LIGHT", without emotional strings attached. A brother here on this forum, expressed this in his signature, "Truth is truth, whether we like it or not".

Some here are overly sensitive and myopic; not saying who but......Some are not here to learn. So mote it be.

Historically, there are Operative Masons and Honorary Masons.

Why? I'll tell you why!

Freemasonry today, TRADITIONALLY practices 3 degrees but this was not always the case. For the longest time there wasn't any degree; that of the Master Mason was judged upon the completion of his master piece, by the Town Council. He was established as the man who knew how things should be done.

He became the Master of the job site.

The jobs attracted all sorts of men. It was established that a level of skill was needed for the pay scale to be fair.

Men who were not masters of the Craft, were entered as Fellows of the Craft. Now there was a need for SECRECY...Signs....tokens....grips....words. These were the pre back pocked, wallet , union card days. You couldn't hire a jamook who didn't know April from Tuesday and give him the wage of a man who knew the Craft. A man looking for work was tested. At the Guild Hall, masons were given the knowledge needed to be tested.

So now, the masons had a degree.

There was also a "thing" on the site. He/it, was an apprentice; usually sold into slavery by his parents to make a buck and have one less mouth to feed. He was a piece of goods, not human, a serf, owned by the Master. No degree involved.

That was the case until the Magna Carter, when the Thing was elevated to human status. The apprentice was now ENTERED on the roll as a human and became an Entered Apprentice with a ritual/degree.

The masons now had 2 degrees.

In 17th century England, if you were going to meet as a group, you had to be registered with the Crown but then everyone would know your business, so men who were interested in science and wished to keep their activity a SECRET, joined an existing Guild. These precursors of what we have today, could have joined any Guild but chose the Mason's Guild and obligingly paid double the fee to belong as HONORARY masons in an OPERATIVE Mason's Lodge.

Circa 1645, men interested in the specific science of alchemy, the for runner of chemistry, pharmacology and medicine, were absorbed into an Operative Mason's Lodge.

Their work had to be especially SECRET because the Roman Catholic Church was on the look-out for heretics , i.e. scientists.

The Honorary Masons admission into the guild, had in the past availed them of the Operative Masons trappings, i.e. words, signs, etc., they had to now further watch their backs, not only from the Crown but from the Church too.

These Honorary Masons developed their own 3rd degree which remained a mystery for hundreds of years and our ignorance was covered by making-up an assumed history that has been passed on to this day.

For hundreds of years, Freemasons kept their lack of knowledge a SECRET. That is the SECRET that Freemasonry has kept.

So mote it be!
@coachn what say you?

Sent from my LG-H811 using My Freemasonry Pro mobile app
 
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Ressam

Guest
Maybe "secrets" are concerned with Freemason's "Outside Lodge Activities"? Do Freemasons have, maybe, sth. like "tasks", to perform, outside The Lodge? Maybe these are considered as "secrets"(outside Lodge Activities)?
 
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Ressam

Guest
Thanks for Your answer, Mr.James!
So, "secrets" are -- "Inside The Lodge", right?
 

Winter

Premium Member
Are you always rude when someone doesn't agree with your limited knowledge? "Superficial view"? "No respect for the secrets"? Take two aspirin and go to bed.

HEY! You are my first IGNORE.

Your statements to the effect that we have no "secrets", or that we are just playing at reenacting history takes away everything that makes Freemasonry beautiful and supports my statement that you have a superficial view of the Craft. You have posted repeatedly, as well as even putting it in your signature, about all the research papers you have written. A very laudable endeavor, but that does not give your argument any more weight. Your signature even boasts that you have, "NEVER occupied a chair in any Masonic body. Not my thing! I am not into memorization. I am an original thinker." Which causes me to wonder how much you could have really delved into the study of Freemasonry. And your insulting tone an comments about my lack of knowledge have led me to conclude that I likely would gain nothing by arguing the matter further with you. So thank you for ignoring me on this board and good day.
 
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